Steve,  I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I do have to point out a glaring logical fallacy on your part (and the part of the league).  On one hand you mentioned "playing by the rules" etc, and on the other you're more than willing to suspend the rules when it suits you (don't worry though, I do it too). 

On at least one occasion, some of those rules, rules you now mention as "pertaining to Vegas play only", have also made it onto Ryan's backpage notes which we receive every week (as I recall, the bit about how long a timeout should be), and thereby have trickled all the way down to our local league play.  I mention this tepidly because personally, I don't 100% agree with the 1 minute rule, or any other part of the beforementioned ettiquette page (timeout rules, shot clock, etc).  I'll get back to that point a little later down in my reply, so for now let's continue on with the fallacy.

Ok, I think we can both agree that the rules which I mentioned are in the "Official Team Manual".  My understanding - and correct me if I'm wrong - is that higher level rules (national) SUPERSEDE lower level rules (local).  Ryan is free to add additional rules and caveats, but essentially we all have to follow the national rules, no matter what.  Kinda like having to follow federal laws vs. local laws.  If they conflict, the federal/higher level laws supersede.

Nowhere in the (national) team manual does it state that certain rules pertain to a particular forum, or that the rules are suspended at the local level.  Ryan's own notes on our scoresheets would support this theory (i.e. the national rules apply to our local play).  While his mention did not include the 20/45 second shot rules or the 4 hour match limit, he did mention the "1-minute" timeout limit, which I would respectfully submit to you he got from the national team manual.  If I remember right (I don't have the copy in front of me) a lot of his wording was a verbatim copy from the team manual.

So here's the fallacy.  You just added a "made up" rule.  In case you don't know what that rule is, I'll spell it out for you.  Your new rule is that the ettiquette section in the team manual only applies to Vegas or regional playoffs, when it really applies every night (and to both 8 and 9 ball).  On top of that, you're selectively, perhaps arbitrarily (?), and certainly conveniently forgetting about all the other rules on that very same page (again, not pointing the finger at you in particular - I do the same thing every night).  None of these guidelines are ranked in a particular order, or given particular weight.  Each rule stands or falls as part of the whole "ettiquette" thing.  

I think what's really happening here is that collectively, as a league, we've chosen to ignore these rules.  Until someone had a hissy fit, decided that he had to be in bed by a certain time, and ... hey wouldcha look at that ... there's an ettiquette page that tells you to quit talkin' and start playin'.  Except, somewhere along the way, that same person, along with Ryan's help,  selectively decided to enforce one rule out of several but still continued to ignore the rest of the "rules".  Would that be in the interest of the league or a particular captain (i.e. one who would sternly "enforce" the rule when it suited his team) on a particular night?

Again, I use the word "rule" in gest.  As, clearly, this rule being listed under "ettiquette" pretty much is right in line with making sure that players use deodorant and wash their hands after sneezing into them and prior to shaking hands, not leave their beer on the edge of the table, and in general not act like a tyrant every time they miss a shot or their opponent makes one, none of which are mentioned in the rulebooks, so... technically none of which violate any rules?!  Most people I know in the league would probably agree with me on this one.  As would they agree that the 1-minute rule may be stretched in the case of a new player being introduced to the league.

Add this to the ridiculist:  Pro's get 30/45 seconds for each shot.  In England, during the world's most respected/best paid billiards tournament (3-rail, I believe) players have all the time in the world.  Televised coverage usually lasts all week and is on nearly 24/7.  So... if pro's take longer than we do, what does that make us?  Superpro's?

I understand, and wholeheartedly support, the idea that we need to get on with the night.  I know that most of us have jobs to get back to in the morning.  Heck, *I* need to get home in a decent hour and manage to wake up the next morning.

Let's step back from this nit-picking for second and go to the larger argument (again which I mentioned in one of the earlier posts).  I picked on this one issue a little because (1) I think we captains have all seen Ryan's notes recently (2)  It's on the inside cover of one of our rule books (3) It's an easy one to pick apart.

The rules.  And I mean this in the truly plural sense.  Because we do have rule(s), spread out over 3 rule books, plus the occasional reminder which Ryan sends out.  Our rules should be a little more congruent, more easily accessible.  And ... drum roll ... perhaps not spread out over 3 booklets.  I understand that the team manual is meant for the captains.  I get that the official rule book is for the players.  And yes, I even go along with the local bylaws.  But in a world where the average person can't wait 10 seconds for a phone connection to happen, can't figure out the difference between an adobe acrobat attachment and a webpage, and doesn't know that anti-lock brakes take longer to brake than non-antilock, progressive braking... well, in that world, the average person isn't going to read all 3 books.

And that, Steve, is the point.  It's not about the silly 1-minute rule, or that we even have an "ettiquette" page.

It's that we don't have an "ettiquette" page in the other two rule books.  And that we do have obvious disrepancies across the rule books and -as simple as the rules are- apparently we do have disrepancies in (1) what we consider a rule vs. a guideline, (2) when a rule applies ("in vegas only, baby"), (3) what rules we decide to follow.


HGP
-------------------------
Sheesh.... this is starting to turn into a bible discussion.  And no, you can't sell your daughter into slavery anymore, or stone someone to death 'cause they covet your stick.  Well, ....maybe if you join the IPA (Iranian Poolplayers Association).  Witch hunts, anyone?

 

Thanks for your time guys and hope everyone is doing well so far in this 2012 year.

 

 

Hey Keith

Today is the Wild Card meeting for the end of session playoffs. If you want to attend the meeting for your division, just look for you division number below next to the meeting time. The location information is also below.


3:00 IS FOR DIVISION #’S (11-12-14-16-17-21-22-24-28-34-35-41-42-71-74-631-671-672)

4:15 IS FOR DIVISION #’S (13-15-18-19-23-25-26-27-29-31-32-33-36-72-641-642)


The Wild Card meeting is being held at Gallery Billiards


LIKE WE ANNOUNCED: GALLERY BILLIARDS IS ON RT 32, NORTH PLANK RD. IN NEWBURGH. TAKE EXIT #17 OFF I-87, THE NY THRUWAY. GO NORTH ON RT 300 APROX. 2 MILES, TAKE THE RIGHT AT THE LIGHTS ONTO RT. 32 SOUTH. IT’S ABOUT 1 ˝ MILES ON THE LEFT SIDE IN A SMALL PLAZA. FROM EAST OR WEST, TAKE EXIT #7 NORTH ONTO RT. 300 TO RT. 32, THEN TAKE THE RIGHT AT THE LIGHTS AND FOLLOW THE SAME DIRECTIONS LISTED ABOVE.

Between that and the whole double-hit thing.... don't get me started on double-hits.  I can't believe most old-timers and upper level players can't tell when they've hit a ball twice.  Most believe that hitting a cue ball that is 1/8" from an object ball high will make both balls move at the same speed in the same direction!

Try doing that w/ a 3" gap.  All of a sudden noone on the planet can do it.  Must be magic.  Or the subject of every youtube video entitled "how to detect a double hit in billiards".

Aaargh.  Maybe I'm just too nit-picky.  From now on, unless you scratch on the 8 or carom the 8 off the table into an innocent bystander's beer ... let's just call it a "fair ball".  O, and the beer shot must be nothin' but air.  No rim.  Any rim/broken glass and it's a foul.

:P

When in doubt just keep in mind that the cue ball is ALWAYS LIVE. Unless an outsider bangs into you or moves the white, then it's almost always a foul.

I also have another guy that is interested in playing. He is a new player but says he has his own pool table. He is also out of Dutchess County. Let me know as I have the telephone numbers for both people.

Hi Joe,

The week 9 scoresheets have been sent out to follow right behind that sheet. You should be receiving it in the mail today. Your division was the only division that this happened with. The scoresheets on www.poolplayers.com have also been updated so that the week 9 sheet is on there as well in the event that anyone in division 011 does not receive the correct sheet in time.